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Let’s Talk Death Knights

Death Knights Renegade Renegade Death Knights Lore Debate

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28 replies to this topic

#1 Sashka5337

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 06:22 AM

“Let’s not”
“yOuR MOm xd”
“U fuckign faggott y r u on here u dont no hsit about lore fucke offf!!1!”

Right, now with those out of the way, let’s be a bit more serious.

Every time I RP a Death Knight, I get some spastic paladin screaming about how I’m a threat to mankind. Ok, that I can handle.

But who in the fuck are these random Death Knights with some generated clichéd name (usually with Frost in it) who walk up with their little Ebon Blade tabard on and say “Hey the Ebon Blade sent us to hunt down renegade Deah Knights.”

https://wow.gamepedi..._the_Ebon_Blade

Hmm nothing on renegade Death Knights in here, except wait. What’s that first sentence?

[attachment=1470:6EB3B090-6466-4EC4-A85C-DE8964367721.jpeg]

“The Knights of the Ebon Blade are an organization of renegade death knights.”

In this respect, any Death Knight who does not serve the Lich King is a renegade - not any Death Knight who refuses to serve the Ebon Blade.

So please, for those of you walking around claiming that people are renegade Death Knights and deserve to be hunted by the Ebon Blade, I say this as sincerely as I want.

Fuck off.

“Oh no, Saro, not a rant, please! Go back to roasting muslim guilds, that’s a classic!”

Death Knights are inherently edgy (it’s in their ability names, class design, and lore background), but it’s only when you walk up and start a fight, then get your ass kicked because you don’t know their lore and underestimate them, that you cry out that they’re edgy and anyone who plays them should be shamed.

People who play Death Knights should be allowed to play them as they please. If you play a Paladin who’s not part of the Silver Hand, you’re not considered a renegade. A magus outside of the Kirin Tor? Not a renegade (anymore).

In short, other classes are able to be played in any way that they are desired, provided that their motives and factions make sense concerning that particular class, and concerning the lore of that particular character. Death Knights should not be spared this treatment, but they should also not be forced to be part of the Ebon Blade 100% of the time (especially when almost all of the phases are neutral anyway).

Should Death Knights be gardeners, or some other asinine role that has nothing to do with the class? No. But they should not be forced to be Ebon Blade. Paladins should not be forced to be Silver Hand, no one should be forced to be Alliance or Horde based on their class/race.

So leave Britney- I mean the Death Knights alone.



And I’m just going to add in right here that yes, a lot of the lore surrounding some of their abilities (Anti-magic shield, Runic usage, Runic power, Umbramancy, Hemomancy) is miniscule, and in some cases, practically nonexistent, and for this reason, they can be considered edgy and dangerous if out of control. In that case, well, it’s down to you to find lore-supported ways to counter that, not down to the Death Knight to not use them because he doesn’t want to be “edgy.”

(This is the part where you call me a “fuckign idoit who dont no lore” and reference something like Templars or Lordaeron)
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Deus Vult

#2 Rakaesa

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 06:43 AM

this is one of the most cancerous things i've ever read


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#3 TheKaldorei1

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 06:50 AM

approve


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LMqo1u7.png


#4 Erkorr

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 07:14 AM

goes to sleep

 

 

sashka clearly doesnt realize that the 'renegade' part implies renegades from the ebon knight cause

 

not that it makes it any better because there are no renegade death knights

 

theres either scourge death knights, onslaught death knights or EB death knights



#5 Sashka5337

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 07:26 AM

goes to sleep


sashka clearly doesnt realize that the 'renegade' part implies renegades from the ebon knight cause

not that it makes it any better because there are no renegade death knights

theres either scourge death knights, onslaught death knights or EB death knights

I want to make the argument that you don’t need to be an Ebon Knight to have been freed from the Lich King, but only two examples of that can be shown in the form of the Pandaren Death Knight, who I’m pretty sure I never saw at Light’s Hope, and we could also say that after Light’s Hope, certain Death Knights went their own way, just how Thassarian and Koltira both chose to join the Alliance and Horde respectively. By that definition, they would then be considered renegades from the Ebon Blade.

The Ebon Blade doesn’t care if someone is part of them or not, as long as you don’t actively seek their annhilation. If you have an OOC grudge against someone, all you need to do is state that the individual is a “Renegade DK” and then log onto an Ebon Blade Death Knight to try and fight them. That’s taking OOC to IC on a very unnecessary level, and many people tend to do it.

But, that’s an interesting point nonetheless.
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#6 Call Me Straws

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 08:03 AM

this contains undead, i can't help but respond

the 'renegade' part implies renegades from the ebon knight cause
 
not that it makes it any better because there are no renegade death knights


... But, that’s an interesting point nonetheless.



More like a statement of fact, but w/e.

The Ebon Blade is a group of renegade Scourge Death Knights. Much like the Forsaken was a faction built up out of renegades from the Scourge during Ner'zhul's diminishing power. The word 'renegade' is being used in the context of their original intent, as Erkor said. From the viewpoint of the Scourge that's exactly what they are. I wouldn't harp on this minor point normally, but you built an entire bad rant post around a single sentence.

post-7219-0-69163800-1515044452_thumb.jp

 

Ebon Knight to have been freed from the Lich King, but only two examples of that can be shown in the form of the Pandaren Death Knight, who I’m pretty sure I never saw at Light’s Hope, and we could also say that after Light’s Hope, certain Death Knights went their own way, just how Thassarian and Koltira both chose to join the Alliance and Horde respectively. By that definition, they would then be considered renegades from the Ebon Blade.


Okay first off, the faction divisions between the different races of Death Knights is clearly null when they're all recalled back to Acherus which is expressed by Thassarian, who never stopped being a member of the Ebon Blade apparently, during Legion. Koltira was just a cuck weak elfboy that does nothing but get captured and lays around with his shirt off being tortured because he's bad so who gives a crap about him. The other option we've seen is just falling back into ranks with your respective faction, which brings up Gie.

Gravewalker Gie is questionable at best as a Horde Garrison follower. She doesn't have nearly enough information about her for us to build a case surrounding it. Also, why would you have seen her at Light's Hope? Pandaren weren't released until Mists. We don't know if she was raised in Acherus, in Northrend, by some random lich in a cave somewhere; maybe she died at the Wrathgate for some reason. That monk trainer at the Exodar has "been there since the crash" apparently but I don't remember seeing him in Burning Crusade. The fact of the matter is you don't have enough information to use her to build your case. A better indicator of a Death Knight that has personality that actually has fallen into a faction other than the Ebon Blade would have been Benjamin Gibb.

 

The Ebon Blade doesn’t care if someone is part of them or not, as long as you don’t actively seek their annhilation.


Well any faction would violently react if you sought their annihilation, logically. However I don't think your post really has anything to do with Death Knights, they're just the easy grab for what seems to be really bothering you.
 

If you have an OOC grudge against someone...

...That’s taking OOC to IC on a very unnecessary level, and many people tend to do it.


Maybe we deal with that on a fundamental level before we get into the specifics of the circumstances of certain roles themselves, hm?
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#7 Josh00

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 08:29 AM

sorry is this an actual post or are you just going "MEMEMEME i KNOW you'll POINT this FLAW about my character.........."


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Spoiler
Rezan_and_Bwonsamdi.jpg
 

#8 The Beast

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 08:45 AM

goes to sleep


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-s


#9 Sashka5337

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 08:56 AM

@Call Me Straws

Even if they were part of the Ebon Blade, Thassarian and Koltira still prioritized the Alliance and Horde over the Ebon Blade during the battle for Andorhal, and the Ebon Blade did nothing about it. All they did when Sylvanas took Koltira was try and negotiate him back instead of doing what they did in Legion, which was something they were always capable of doing. This is what I meant by the fact that unless you actively seek to destroy them, they don’t care about any affairs other than the Scourge. This is also represented by when Galen tried to backstab them - they didn’t care for his kingdom otherwise.

I am also assuming that the Death Knights who served Acherus once would end up serving it again, if they found their former lives and/or current alliegances either less important or just far more dull than fighting for the Ebon Blade. Or perhaps they’re selfless enough to return to service under it. Again, however, Death Knights are capable of leaving the Ebon Blade’s service, even if it is an unpopular move, that much is clear. It would be meaningless to hunt them for not being part of the Ebon Blade, however. We have not once seen a Death Knight be hunted and killed strictly for not being a member of the Ebon Blade.

Also, I just want to point out that calling someone a “Renegade Ebon Blade Death Knight” would suit the role much better, in this argument, instead of saying “Renegade Death Knight” which is fairly broad. It’d be similar to “Renegade Undead,” simply less broad.

@Josh00

This is an actual post. If you want to critique my character, by all means, do it, but it would be irrelevant to this specific topic, and the argument I’ve generated through it.
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#10 Call Me Straws

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 09:33 AM

@Sashka5337,

Well I assume you noticed I didn't disagree with the idea that Death Knights can go out on their own. I've touched on this before very slightly elsewhere so I don't feel like repeating myself over points I already covered. If you have something else more specific about this issue you want to ask me, feel free.
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#11 PewPewKapowy

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 09:59 AM

I don't fully understand why it's such a bad thing that DK's are out on their own instead of being part of a faction like the Ebon Blade. I'm not that well versed in the lore so if someone could tell me what makes it exclusively logical for them to align themselves with a faction.


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#12 Call Me Straws

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 10:19 AM

I don't fully understand why it's such a bad thing that DK's are out on their own instead of being part of a faction like the Ebon Blade. I'm not that well versed in the lore so if someone could tell me what makes it exclusively logical for them to align themselves with a faction.


The exclusively logical recourse of joining a faction actually protects them from the retribution of the mortals who have suffered immensely at the hands of the Scourge. The Death Knight is the prime mascot of the Scourge's cruel ingenuity and craftsmanship when it comes to soldiers. Being part of the Ebon Blade has different implications for each knight, obviously, and this can be a point of interest in creating your character. Maybe you're working out your penance knowing you did horrific things as a tool of the Scourge. Maybe you see yourself as an arbiter counter to the righteous and the moral who cannot act with the callous disregard for integrity you can. Heroes cannot exist without monsters. The reasoning for your knight will differ, probably.

It makes sense that rather than risk being unaligned that a Death Knight would return to the Horde or Alliance, or if their homes won't take them, remain with the Ebon Blade, to try and do some good as recompense. This of course is assuming you aren't just some rando that is a villain; since all of the questions and framing of situations for Death Knight characters have been in non-hostile environments so far. It would be a choice made out of conviction or pragmatism in all likelihood. While cognizant undead don't necessarily have a reflex other than their own will that keeps them from doing incredibly dangerous and physically harmful things, they have their intelligence and reasoning (granted they haven't gone utterly mad).

The "bad thing" should be rather self-evident at this point.
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#13 Sir Theodric

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 10:47 AM

I want to make the argument that you don’t need to be an Ebon Knight to have been freed from the Lich King, but only two examples of that can be shown in the form of the Pandaren Death Knight, who I’m pretty sure I never saw at Light’s Hope, and we could also say that after Light’s Hope, certain Death Knights went their own way, just how Thassarian and Koltira both chose to join the Alliance and Horde respectively. By that definition, they would then be considered renegades from the Ebon Blade.
If you are using the logic of "Well, I didn't see her at Light's Hope. So she might not be part of the Ebon Blade!", then the Ebon Blade is made up of only Koltira, Thassarian, Darion and the playable death knight. You're the only ones shown surrendering to the Argent Dawn. And both Thassarian and Koltira are part of the Ebon Blade, even if they are fighting as part of either the Horde or Alliance. 

20180528201811_1.jpg


#14 Sashka5337

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 04:02 PM

If you are using the logic of "Well, I didn't see her at Light's Hope. So she might not be part of the Ebon Blade!", then the Ebon Blade is made up of only Koltira, Thassarian, Darion and the playable death knight. You're the only ones shown surrendering to the Argent Dawn. And both Thassarian and Koltira are part of the Ebon Blade, even if they are fighting as part of either the Horde or Alliance.


Numerous individuals in Acherus were also liberated (Dread Commander Thalanor) while others were not (Instructor Razuvious) but I mainly brought this up, because if this is the only way to break the Lich King’s hold over you, she just wasn’t there and her character is not thoroughly fleshed out as it is. Straws already refuted this.
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#15 Tevildo

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 04:25 PM

unknown.png

(^ Quest of Mograine that sends you to your faction)

 

Serving fully either the horde or the alliance is the logical and natural option for some DKs out there since they are their former people. Leaving the Ebon Blade on its entirety? Difficult, but its not impossible. Death knights are out there fighting for the horde and the alliance however they can, that means they can roam around to some extent and whatnot (as i see it).

Albeit if there are DKs that do not serve the Ebon Blade, there's nothing in lore (afaik) that confirms that Mograine has ordered or supported the hunt of such DKs. Now, if this DKs truly serve the Horde or the Alliance, making such an offensive action against this particular death knight would be placing the Ebon Blade under a bad spotlight with the respective faction, which is not what Mograine wants at all, it'd be disobeying Mograine's orders to maintaining a relationship with the factions.

 

The renegade DK hunters are just not supported by Lore, its custom shit. They are making up Mograine's orders (which is esentially "Hey, i RP Mograine on my free time and he says you succ"). Just stop it, go play a serious character that doesn't make people loose braincells by the minute.

 

But that's just my opinion nonetheless. I don't like DKs either.

 

Renegade DK hunters are gay.
 


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unknown.png


#16 Storrent

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 11:07 PM

bad rp reee

hmm i see


e73Tslt.png

NuVumIx.png

hmm


#17 Sashka5337

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 11:43 PM

Reee it’s Saronam


ok
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#18 Goobs

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 12:33 AM

sorry i'm not sure what this is


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#19 Norshar

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 01:39 AM

256



#20 Shmoopy

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 04:24 PM

"Should Death Knights be gardeners, or some other asinine role that has nothing to do with the class? No."

 

Alright, hol' the fucking phone, from my understanding about Death Knight lore there can be gardeners. Seeing as most Gnome/Goblin DKs use their undead abilities to gain something for their proffesion i.e Engineering or mining.


 


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Death Knights, Renegade, Renegade Death Knights, Lore Debate